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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1317<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
Intelligence Services in Traveller<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: Justice and Criminal vs Civil <BR>
RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
Re: Nonhuman languages<BR>
Law (was Re: Border Guards)<BR>
OT: Where Kenji grew up<BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Oynprith<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
Re: xenophobia<BR>
Re Justice and Civil vs Criminal<BR>
Klingon Software Quality Assurance (fwd)<BR>
Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re Names [Semi OT]<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: yet more H. Beam Piper <BR>
Re: Nonhuman languages<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:57:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote: <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Don't be ridiculous!  The Traveller Universe is a free-market utopia,<BR>
> > where racism is PROVABLY inefficent and therefore impossible, and<BR>
> > therefore unknown.<BR>
> > <BR>
> LOL, Kenji-san!  Do you really think humaniti will ever outgrow xenophobia<BR>
> completely?  You must have grown up someplace much more accepting than I<BR>
> did.<BR>
<BR>
Well, yes, I grew up in AMERICA, where (like in the 3I) racism is<BR>
BASICALLY a thing of the past and so-called "xenophobia" is just a matter<BR>
of PRACTICAL NECESSITY. I realize that other countries are not as<BR>
progressive as OURS.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
who doesn't know if it's better that people detect mockery and laugh, or<BR>
that they don't, and blow up entertainingly all over the list.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:05:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Intelligence Services in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Hi all.  The recent discussion of IBIS and IRIS got me thinking:  What are<BR>
the intelligence services and secret societies in the TU?  I've invented a<BR>
few of my own, but I don't remember seeing many in the sourcebooks.  In<BR>
fact, this seems a little suspicious to me.  Has there been some sort of<BR>
cover up?  Perhaps the answer lies in <CENSORED> <CENSORED> <CENSORED><BR>
<CENSORED> <CENSORED><BR>
<BR>
Chalres C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:03:06 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The Chinese are one of the reasons you didn't grow up<BR>
> speaking Japanese down there.  The Communists and the<BR>
> Nationalists stopped fighting each other with guns<BR>
<BR>
Well, up to a point.<BR>
<BR>
> >Another thought:  The second bloodiest war in history<BR>
> > (after WWII) was the Taiping Rebellion in China in <BR>
> >the 19th century.  <BR>
> <BR>
> The Taiping Rebellion started when secretaries and<BR>
> clerks rose up to fight against Chinese rulers who had<BR>
> been selling out China to Europe and Japan.  I suspect<BR>
> that these typists also wanted to go back to<BR>
> calligraphy.  [Sound of hatch slamming.]<BR>
<BR>
Erm.  Well, pardon the pun, but typing hadn't reached the benighted shores<BR>
of the West, much less China, in the 1850s, so I don't know that's quite<BR>
on the mark.  I also don't know how much the driving social force behind<BR>
the Taipings can be described as secretaries and clerks.<BR>
<BR>
Succumbing to the odious habit of lame ObTrav closures:  There's a newish<BR>
(1997?) book by Jonathan Spence called _God's Chinese Son_ on the<BR>
Taipings, which, like all Spence's stuff, is meticulous history written<BR>
with great style and eminently accessible to non-specialists.  I strongly<BR>
recommend it; it's loaded with vignettes & seeds for Trav (and other RPG)<BR>
needs.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 17:03:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Justice and Criminal vs Civil <BR>
<BR>
> > > Don't be ridiculous!  The Traveller Universe is a free-market utopia,<BR>
> > > where racism is PROVABLY inefficent and therefore impossible, and<BR>
> > > therefore unknown.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > LOL, Kenji-san!  Do you really think humaniti will ever outgrow xenophobia<BR>
> > completely?  You must have grown up someplace much more accepting than I<BR>
> > did.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, yes, I grew up in AMERICA, where (like in the 3I) racism is<BR>
> BASICALLY a thing of the past and so-called "xenophobia" is just a matter<BR>
> of PRACTICAL NECESSITY. I realize that other countries are not as<BR>
> progressive as OURS.<BR>
<BR>
Mind if I ask when you grew up here, Kenji-san?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 17:10:39 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz writes:<BR>
>>>ObTrav: Legal skill may run a poor second to a high Social<BR>
>>>Standing score, or other evidence of good governmental<BR>
>>>connections.<BR>
>> 	Not to mention monetary worth or race.<BR>
>Don't be ridiculous!  The Traveller Universe is a free-market<BR>
>utopia, where racism is PROVABLY inefficent and therefore<BR>
>impossible, and therefore unknown.<BR>
<BR>
	If only it were so easy...<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:18:52 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Nonhuman languages<BR>
<BR>
Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:19:24 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Nonhuman languages<BR>
><BR>
>On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> The candidates are:<BR>
>> Droyne (Oynprith):  1<BR>
>> Aslan (Trokh):<BR>
>> Vargr*:<BR>
>> K'kree:<BR>
>> Other:   _____________<BR>
>><BR>
>> *As there is no single language for the entire Vargr species (how absurdly<BR>
>> improbable!!!!), I'll assume Gvegh, said to be the dominant language in<BR>
>> the area behind the Claw.<BR>
>><BR>
>I'll put in a vote for Gvegh.<BR>
<BR>
Gvegh would seem to be the choice.<BR>
<BR>
>I've a hard time believing that any species other than the Droyne and the<BR>
>Vilani would have ONE language.<BR>
<BR>
The Droyne actually don't have one language.  Language varies from<BR>
planet to planet (Oytrip to Oytrip?).  They do have a liturgical language<BR>
(Oynprith) in common (much like Latin in Europe few centuries back).  It<BR>
could probably doulb as a trade language if Droyne from different planets<BR>
interacted more.<BR>
<BR>
The Aslan have one language not because (acccording to my understanding)<BR>
they don't suffer the same sort of linguistic drift others do, but becasue<BR>
have specifically worked to counter it and keep it their traditional<BR>
language.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 17:22:03 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Law (was Re: Border Guards)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:22:45 -0500 (EST), "Keven R. Pittsinger"<BR>
<jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In H. Beam Piper's universe ('Little Fuzzy', 'Uller Uprising',<BR>
>et. al.), there was a machine called the veridicator, which was<BR>
>part of every police interrogation as well as being installed in<BR>
>every courtroom to determine the truth.  As long as the globe<BR>
>showed red, you were telling the truth *as you knew it*.  The<BR>
>instant it started turning blue, you were in deep kimchee...<BR>
<BR>
Other way around - blue = cool; red = hot water.<BR>
<BR>
>Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well. <BR>
>In 'Little Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute<BR>
>him once, and the other guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that<BR>
>escapes me at the moment>, they shot the guy dead, *then* hung<BR>
>him'.  Interesting...<BR>
<BR>
In one of the Fuzzy books, there was a remark to the effect that<BR>
you could find a precedent for _anything_ in Colonial law.  Some<BR>
examples that I recall:<BR>
<BR>
In the Fuzzy trial (People of the Colony of Zarathustra v.<BR>
Holloway and Kellogg), after Kellogg committed suicide, Leslie<BR>
Coombs, Kellogg's lawyer (and the legal counsel for the Chartered<BR>
Zarathustra Company) made a statement to the effect "You can't go<BR>
through the farce of trying a dead man", and Holloway's lawyer,<BR>
Gus Brannhard, immediately came up with a precedent for doing<BR>
just that.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the issue of sapience = talk-and-build-a-fire as an<BR>
identity was knocked down on the basis of another precedent in<BR>
Colonial law, an infanticide case.  The defense argument in that<BR>
case was that murder was defined as the deliberate killing of a<BR>
sapient being; a sapient being is one that can talk and build a<BR>
fire; a human infant can do neither; therefore, a human infant is<BR>
not sapient, and therefore cannot be murdered.  This case<BR>
established that T&BaF is proof-positive, but an apparent<BR>
inability is not proof-contrary.<BR>
<BR>
Have at it, folks; your pet legal theories no doubt have _some_<BR>
examples - both for and against - _somewhere_ in the Eleven<BR>
Thousand Worlds...<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:23:37 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Where Kenji grew up<BR>
<BR>
It's *because* I grew up in AMERICA that I think racism is never going<BR>
away.<BR>
<BR>
And if Kenji had been READING my posts he would know that I grew up in<BR>
WEST VIRGINIA!!!  <BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:28:32 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:43:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
<BR>
>>>No, I don't see any _guarantee_ of a _rule of law_<BR>
>in<BR>
>>>the Third Imperium.  I think that the Third Imperium<BR>
>>>will try to establish some predictability of result<BR>
>>>in order to facilitate interstellar commerce, but<BR>
>>>beyond that, due process is just not the controlling<BR>
><BR>
>>>concern.<BR>
<BR>
>[You responded:]<BR>
>>Well, I see it as going beyond _some_<BR>
>> predictability.  The impression I get is one where<BR>
>>the Imperium likes to codify and keep things<BR>
>>consitent.  When someone does something<BR>
>>wrong, it is (if it isn't a local matter) presented<BR>
>>as having broken a law and there is always reference<BR>
>>to some trial or judicial proceeding.  It also is<BR>
>>pretty important for trade (central to the Imperium's<BR>
><BR>
>>raison d'etre).<BR>
<BR>
>How much predictability is possible, given the<BR>
>distances involved?  Local Imperial officials have a<BR>
>lot of power and discretion.  Only really important<BR>
>issues will be addressed at higher levels.  The result<BR>
>is that there may be significant differences in<BR>
>different regions, which will be tolerated or<BR>
>eventually changed.<BR>
<BR>
I see the distance problem as pushing _toward_ the rule of<BR>
law.  It is law that unites and provides a common basis.<BR>
Given how much local authority distance requires, I think<BR>
they will be keen on tempering that with law so that it is<BR>
restricted to reasonable discressionary policy areas rather<BR>
than becoming absolute fiat.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:55:35 -0600<BR>
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
Subject: Oynprith<BR>
<BR>
If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands...<BR>
If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands...<BR>
If it's Oynprith and you know it, then you're T-Geek and you show it;<BR>
If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands!<BR>
<BR>
For more information, check out my<BR>
Oynprith Glyphic Fragments page at:<BR>
<BR>
 http://www.members.home.com/eaglestone/oynprith/oynprith.html<BR>
<BR>
- -Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:56:44 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
...<BR>
>Regardless of that fact, the highest armor value on the MT chart is 120,<BR>
>which translates to something like 32,400 cm of hard steel (I don't have<BR>
>the book in front of me, but it's somewhere close). The BBs make use of the<BR>
>highest armor value available.<BR>
<BR>
  AFAIK, MT uses Striker's armour charts unchanged, so (120-80=40; 40/8 =<BR>
5 doublings = x32) your DR 30K cruiser means that your looking at a DR 1 M<BR>
BB. Which is still absurd for GT, but if you then have to use a mass-based<BR>
design system you'll have to compromise on both armour and Agility-6. Just<BR>
make it tough, and it'll still be a BB-15.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:56:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: xenophobia<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>LOL, Kenji-san!  Do you really think humaniti will ever outgrow xenophobia<BR>
<BR>
  Sure, humans have the capacity for moral greatness, but what about about<BR>
all those BEM's?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:53:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re Justice and Civil vs Criminal<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>Ob Traveller, at what law levels would the trials go<BR>
>from Reasonable doubt to Preponderance. Or would it <BR>
>even be related. <BR>
<BR>
Law level and standard of proof are not related<BR>
concepts.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:45:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Klingon Software Quality Assurance (fwd)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
<BR>
> The top 12 things likely to be overheard if you had <BR>
>Klingon programmers working for you:<BR>
<BR>
This explains a lot about my experiences with various<BR>
companies' tech support.  Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:51:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jussi_Kenkkila <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
<BR>
>Have one of the major components suffer a fake<BR>
>malfunction. This means that when they run a self-<BR>
>diagnostic program, it gets convinced that<BR>
>there's something wrong with some esoteric part. The <BR>
>characters can check it, "repair" it or even replace <BR>
>it, and the program is still convinced there's <BR>
>something wrong. <BR>
<BR>
That's how Dave and Frank determine that Hal isn't<BR>
functioning properly.  "I read your lips while you<BR>
were in the pod.  I couldn't let you take any action<BR>
that might jeopardize the mission, Dave."  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:51:49 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re Names [Semi OT]<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:14:50 -0500 (EST), "William F. Hostman"<BR>
<aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Say, has Trav-Lang done anything on Virush or Newt languages?<BR>
<BR>
Not yet.  And it's Traveller-Culture, now.  We're still working<BR>
on Vilani.  If you want to start scribbling out your thoughts on<BR>
the Bwaps or the Virushi, feel free - it's always good to have<BR>
some idea of what you want to see.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:52:00 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 05:09:00 -0500 (EST), Tommy Grav<BR>
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>And for that matter, I heard of a case in the US (not sure if it is<BR>
>>real) where a politician was convicted of receiving a bribe from X, but<BR>
>>X was acquitted of *paying* the bribe. <BR>
<BR>
>Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or anywhere else,<BR>
>but there was a murder here in Norway, were in the criminal case, the<BR>
>kid (who was charged of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
>when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil charges, they<BR>
>were awarded several hundred thousand Norwegian kroner. <BR>
<BR>
>Not guilty, son, but you still have to pay.<BR>
<BR>
People of the State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson,<BR>
(criminal case, murder in the second degree), followed by<BR>
(Parents of Nicole) Brown (Simpson) v. (Orenthal James) Simpson<BR>
(the civil case).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:52:10 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: yet more H. Beam Piper <BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:14:50 -0500 (EST), "Keven R. Pittsinger"<BR>
<jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> >From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
>> >Subject: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
>> ...<BR>
>> >ObTrav:  I dunno... a world where after every (quite peaceable) election,<BR>
>> >the outgoing politicians are ceremonially escorted from their offices by<BR>
>> >armed members of the populace?<BR>
 <BR>
>>   You might try (IIRC) "Lone Star PLanet".<BR>
<BR>
>I liked the courtroom where they convicted the guy of assasinating the <BR>
>*politician* for trying to introduce income tax, then set him free with his <BR>
>machete and told him to pass it down to his heirs with pride.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
>Sounds like those New Texans had their heads on straight to me...<BR>
<BR>
They do, and you've got the basic facts right, but the<BR>
interpretation wrong - in the Court of Political Justice, the<BR>
question that they are trying to decide is not whether the<BR>
accused took the actions in question, but whether such actions<BR>
were in excess of what was deserved.  IOW, he wasn't Not Guilty<BR>
of Murder, he was Not Guilty of Giving the Politician What-For In<BR>
Excess of What That Damn Politician Deserved.<BR>
<BR>
(I cribbed _very_ liberally from that book - which I had just<BR>
read for the n!th time - when I wrote up Nutema for the RICE<BR>
Archives.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:02:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Nonhuman languages<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>VOTE for the nonhuman Traveller language that would <BR>
>be most useful and interesting to players, refs, and <BR>
>writers to have grammars,vocabularies, and a variety <BR>
>of sample texts for.  The candidates are:<BR>
<BR>
I vote for Gvegh, the Vargr language most encountered<BR>
in and around the Imperium.  That would help my work<BR>
the most, anyway.  Second choice would be the Droyne<BR>
language (what's it called?).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:29:48 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
> Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> > > I get loads of GPFs from Windows Explorer ... even when  its  not<BR>
> > > running!  I now use the Litestep shell but  still  get GPFs  from<BR>
> > > EXPLORER.EXE.  Its almost time  for  the  biannual  reformat  and<BR>
> > > reinstall.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You shouldn't be getting any at all.  The prime culprit for<BR>
> > those is the video driver.  Some of them don't work in Windows<BR>
> > 95 without a tweak or two.  For instance, one card from Matrox<BR>
> > I used sets itself at "optimal" which was causing me Blue<BR>
> > screens right and left.  When I experimented and set it for<BR>
> > "adapter default" they went away.<BR>
> <BR>
> Wow!  I have a Matrox Millenium II set to "optimal" ...  I  shall<BR>
> change it when I get home tonight.  This was not  something  that<BR>
> had occured to me to try, if it works then a *big* thank you  for<BR>
> this info.<BR>
<BR>
When setting up the Matrox Millenium II card in a dedicated box<BR>
at work, I had to turn off the DMA settings in particular.<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:13:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:26:38 PST<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> And I'm sure that as (I am told) many mosques have a plaque or other<BR>
>> indicator indicating the direction of of Mecca now, offworld mosques<BR>
>> might well have some sort of indicator controlled by a computer. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> For personal use, something incorporating a gps type system might work.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, since praying "toward" Mecca even on Earth involves praying<BR>
> along the great circle leading there (you don't stand on your head if<BR>
> you're 170 degrees away, in other words), one would probably see the same<BR>
> sort of practical correction applied here.  You'd aim for the point on the<BR>
> horizon directly above or below the current location of Sol in the sky.<BR>
><BR>
> A complication here is that mosques are often built (on Terra) so that<BR>
> their orientation naturally focuses on the direction of Mecca.  The Saudi<BR>
> embassy in Washington DC is a lovely example; it has a sort of outer<BR>
> curtain wall which is aligned with the street and adjoining lots, but the<BR>
> building inside (which includes a mosque) is rotated about 30 degrees so<BR>
> that the front doors are pointed at Mecca.  Makes for a rather striking<BR>
> effect.<BR>
><BR>
> Needless to say, this couldn't be done if the direction to Mecca changed<BR>
> on a daily cycle. <BR>
<BR>
Want to make a bet? Rotating buildings are *not* that hard to make. And<BR>
it'd not only make for a striking effect, it'd allow the architect to<BR>
play all sorts of games with light and shadow, since he could be<BR>
*certain* that all possible facings would be exposed to all possible<BR>
inclinations of the "sun" sooner or later.<BR>
<BR>
> It may not be long (on historical timescales) before real-world Moslems<BR>
> need to face part of this issue.  On the Moon, the direction to Mecca from<BR>
> any point on the surface is fixed (plus or minus about three degrees,<BR>
> which is fairly neglibile.  However, the daily cycle of prayer would pose<BR>
> a problem.  Do you pray five times over the lunar day, or the terran?  If<BR>
> the latter, do you do it by Mecca time, or GMT, or whatever time is being<BR>
> kept in the base?  With the latter two, how do you decide what latitude's<BR>
> sunrise and sunset to use?<BR>
<BR>
Heck, you've got the same problem in orbit. The sun rises and sets once<BR>
each orbit. That's why I asked if anyone knew what the Saudi on the<BR>
Shuttle mission a few years back did. <BR>
<BR>
I *do* recall that he was pleased to be the first to observe the new<BR>
moon, even though it only affected him.<BR>
<BR>
And Moslems on a Lunar base will have to hope that there's *some*<BR>
natural feature visible from the base that will light up or go dark at<BR>
the moment of new moon. Or else they'll have to go for the harder to<BR>
detect "full earth".<BR>
<BR>
>> I do agree that the direction would too little to worry about when<BR>
>> taking even a jump 6 in the Marches. I was being a bit disingenious<BR>
>> with regard to prayers in jump, knowing that some scholars will nitpick<BR>
>> doctrines to death, and it might be argued that one couldn't know the<BR>
>> right direction while in jump.<BR>
><BR>
> I would imagine that there would arise a fatwah for this, like "toward the<BR>
> bow".  Again, there would be dissenters.<BR>
<BR>
Aren't there always? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:24:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 05:56 AM 11/5/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Actually, that's more due to TL differences. With the tech the Iraqis<BR>
>>had, they *were* camoflauged and/or "behind cover".<BR>
>><BR>
>>Imagine their shock when it became clear that as far as *our* gear was<BR>
>>concerned, they had neither. <BR>
><BR>
> The Iraqis proved to be very clever.  They would haul wrecked tanks into<BR>
> fighting positions, and light fires in the engine compartments, while<BR>
> driving a working tank into the posotion previously occupied by the junked<BR>
> vehicle.  When the Coalition planes came back, they'd hit the same wreck<BR>
> over an over again.<BR>
><BR>
> Inside Iraq, airfield personel became very adept at painting craters on<BR>
> runways, to convince USAF photo recon specialists that the runway way<BR>
> indeed out of service.<BR>
><BR>
> An Iraqi armor commander, captured on the second day of the war, put it best:<BR>
><BR>
> "I entered Kuwait with 48 T-72s.  After a month of air attacks, I had 45.<BR>
> After an hour of combat with the M1, I had none."<BR>
<BR>
Actually the "gear" I was thinking of *was* the M-1. Between the IR<BR>
gear and the ability of the main gun to score kills *thru* the berms<BR>
that Iraqi tanks tried to use as cover, it must have been one hell of a<BR>
shock.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:27:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >> I saw where MS announced that the Win2000 client will sell for $350<BR>
>> >> when it comes out next March.  The server was in the thousands, not<BR>
>> >> unexpected. I also so where they want to require a "client user fee"<BR>
>> >> for ever client that connects to a Win2000 server. That should<BR>
>> >> basically eliminate any non-MS clients from connecting to a Win server<BR>
>> >> as you'd end up paying twice.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Worse, they *could* rig it so if a pirate copy of Win2000 logs into a MS <BR>
>> > server, it automagically reformats the user's hd.  $350.  Damn.  No <BR>
> *wonder* <BR>
>> > they hate Linux so much...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I'd *love* to see them do something like that. But they won't. Not if<BR>
>> their lawyers hear about it in time.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You see, there's a *clear* legal precedent on *that* trick, dating back<BR>
>> to a consultant who rigged his software to wip a company's mainframe if<BR>
>> they didn't pay his bill on time (or some such). <BR>
><BR>
> Ah, but their shrinkware license, the one that says, 'if you break this <BR>
> seal, <BR>
> you agree to our licensing terms', *also* says that the product is *not* <BR>
> warranted to be or do *anything* on anybody's computer, and MS is *not* to <BR>
> be <BR>
> held liable for any data loss, computer malfs, or mother in law visits that <BR>
> may occur from attempted useage of the software.<BR>
<BR>
Contracts of adhesion aren't worth the paper they are printed on. And<BR>
in fact, many of them, like Microsoft's, tend to violate the law in<BR>
other ways (such as copyright law, which grants rights that are not<BR>
negotiable to the purchaser of a copyrighted work, said rights typical<BR>
being "denied" by the "license").<BR>
<BR>
Their *sole* purpose is to discourage buyers from trying to claim their<BR>
*actual* legal rights, and thus save MS a lot of legal fees. <BR>
<BR>
Also, MS *cannot* use a contract to wiggle out of *deliberate* damage<BR>
caused by their software. <BR>
<BR>
>> The court ruled that he'd have been within his rights to have his<BR>
>> software quit working, destroying the data (and other programs) which<BR>
>> did *not* belong to him was \n't acceptable, Therefore he came under<BR>
>> the laws for malicious destruction of the files. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> MS would lose *bigtime* in court over a stunt like that. <BR>
><BR>
> I don't think so.  I think they could get away with contending that they're <BR>
> not responsible for damages resulting from illegal useage of their software, <BR>
> especially in regards to their shrinkware license.<BR>
<BR>
Again, the shrinkware license is *not* a valid contract, in that<BR>
there's *no* way to negotiate it. Ask a lawyer about "contracts of<BR>
adhesion". It takes a small miracle to get them upheld. That's why the<BR>
software companies tried to get a law passed that *made* shrinkwrap<BR>
licenses legally binding. They got it passed in Louisana, but last I'd<BR>
heard it'd been ruled against in court decisions.<BR>
<BR>
And as I recall, that decision I referred to earlier *does* say that<BR>
the programmer *is* responsible for damages his software *deliberately*<BR>
causes, even if the "trigger" for the damage is an illegal act on the<BR>
part of the person using the software. <BR>
<BR>
In the case in question the "illegal act" was continuing to use the<BR>
software without paying for it. And that's *exactly* what would be<BR>
going on in our hypothetical scenario with MS servers.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1317<BR>
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